Committee Minutes

Grand Forks City Council Service/Safety Standby Committee
Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 4:00 p.m.____________________

The city council of the city of Grand Forks sitting as the Service/Safety Standby Committee met in the council chambers in City Hall on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 at 4:10 p.m. Present at roll call were Council Members Kreun, chair; McNamara. There were no changes to the agenda.

Others present were Al Grasser, Justin Klabo, Jane Williams, Brad Gengler, John Schmisek, Pete Haga.

1. Region and Urban Road Program for 2009-2012.
John Thompson, assistant city engineer, reported he had prepared packet that was sent out of all three of the related items, including the last section of the packet which had to do with our regional urban program requests for 2009 - 2012, included in that was letter from the State Local Govt. Agency telling us of their programming and reflected that in the papers that were sent out. He sated they had a meeting with Finance and found some clarifications and changes that they might want to make. He stated they just received response to our submittal from a year ago and now are working on next year's submittal of projects as they go forward in 2009 to 2012. He stated that balance at the end of 2008 is $4,700,000 and have 6 projects that are scheduled for 2009, 3 in regional projects and 3 are urban funded projects, Lift Station 87 Rehab which we share because it's combined funding, 5th Street project is a DOT project and is on Regional Highway system, Downtown DeMers Avenue Skyway bridge was request early this year to be moved up and scheduled for later because of problems with expansion joints, and if were to repair those would cost significant amount of money and rather than do that and then have a project 2 years later.

Al Grasser reported what the differences are between the urban and regional, urban monies are dollars that are basically allocated to the city, and $2.6 million is what they are telling us to plan for, that is money that the City has a lot of discretion with, has to be applied to classified streets which are bigger streets (17th Ave.S., Columbia Road, Belmont Road). Regional money projects are developed primarily through local district engineer and utilizes a separate pot of federal money that can only be applied to higher end streets (DeMers Avenue Skyway, 5th Street) and those monies compete on a state-wide basis and we will get comments back, that we will submit this list as a request, (first goes to the MPO and then to the DOT), DOT reviews this and will end up modifying this list based on what their funding liabilities are. He stated he wanted to have a clear concept between the level of control that they have on the regional vs. the urban, and the other thing on the regional system is generally we prioritize those as a high priority because normally the City's share will be only be about 10% of that project so we leverage our money best on those types of improvements, the urbans we generally have a 20% local share but because there are things we have to do upfront and things that don't qualify for reimbursements, our actual total that we need to account for is more than 20% of the project, lot of times even approaches 40%.

Mr. Thompson stated that from DeMers Avenue Skyway Bridge have two more urban projects in 2009, North 51st Street from 10th Avenue to Gateway, about 3 block section of concrete that is in rough shape; Cherry Street from 17th to 25th, half mile of asphalt that is in need of replacement.
That those projects except for the 5th Street seal which was added this year, were in the letter we received approving those requests.

He stated going into 2010 have project on Gateway Drive from Columbia to the Red River, which is a rehab of the existing pavement that was 1987 vintage; other regional project is intersection of (shared project) Gateway to I-29 - and those are the bulk road sections between the River and I-29, and following year will see that there is an intersection of Columbia and Gateway. Also in 2010 have South 48th Street project in Industrial Park from 17th to 32nd (one-mile long improvement) new construction.

He stated in 2011 we have a project that wasn't programmed, 55th Avenue from Cherry Street to Washington Street; and a new project - safety improvement projects based on high accident locations, that right now don't have any except DeMers Avenue and Washington and our RHSIP application from last year didn't fair very well so we turned it into an urban funded project and looking at doing one intersection a year from 2011 on and see that repeated in 2012 intersection improvements and 2013 intersection improvements as well.

Mr. Grasser stated on the HSIP numbers, last year submitted a number of projects with the understanding that that might be a separate dedicated pot of money that we could do projects with, but when talking with DOT they are treating it more like it comes out of our urban money program and hang a special designator on it that it also qualifies as meeting their HSIP obligation and that is why we don't have any specific HSIP projects on this list.

Kreun stated when looking at item in 2010 - Washington and 47th with intersections being done one each year for 3 years, does that mean from the traffic counts that we have had in the past or do we have to do those over again as would include intersection lights, etc. Mr. Grasser stated that traffic signals they are envisioning there, that when send this up to the council, we are going to take out the specific intersections, that want to maintain flexibility to address whichever ones end up being most important to the community during that time; and are going to ask that much be dedicated towards that type of work, and then identify those closer when we get to the actual project. He stated there are a number of intersections that are going to be hot buttons, some already have been, but hard to determine which ones will end up being the most important. He stated that is why put one in every year so have the ability to chase some down and have some federal money, otherwise end up like at 11th and 42nd, where had to spend that money for temporary signal. He stated other one they wanted to point out was 55th Ave.S. and when looking at funding scenario, they didn't program any actual dollars (zero dollars) where put it on the list for discussion, and are going to recommend taking it off before going to the COW, otherwise run our balances too low, and that actually if the council set up a fund that first showed up in 2007 where we have some local dollars to help meet this trunk infrastructure need; and the problem is that they need to save up about 3 years funding. He stated on 5th Street we may end up having to do with more local money and/or try to leverage it with special assessments.

Mr. Thompson stated moving into 2012 there is Columbia Road-Gateway Drive improvements.
It was noted this project has been put on for several years, and is dual funded because Hwy. 2 is regional and Columbia Road is urban. Kreun stated that would be 10 years that we have put that project off. Mr. Grasser stated that one of the things that they needed on that is part of the local concept is a signal at REA but need to get the traffic counts up enough so that if tackle that project too soon it won't qualify. Grasser stated we are having trouble matching our needs to the funding.

Mr. Thompson stated that proceeding through 2012 there are couple projects finishing up the balance of 32nd Avenue between Washington and Interstate - 2 projects, one from 15th to 25th, and other from 31st to 37th, and those projects are rehab type that go in and fix what is wrong and try to use the existing pavement; concern in going to the DOT that because of the capacity constraints of the existing improvements out there that if were to reconstruct that, may be back in there before the end of the life of the pavement, that want to rehabilitate it and use the intersections of Washington and 32nd , Columbia and 32nd and anticipate that there might be changes in that..

He stated another new project between 2012 is downtown traffic signals upgrade consisting of interconnection and improvements to signal system and that would be a regional/urban project as well, that they are in the process of estimating and defining the scope of that project, and by mid-November might have estimate and proceed on it, that DOT locally has indicated that they are interested in doing that as well. That project may also extend into EGF because of the corridor of DeMers so there would be a MNDOT comment as well.

Mr. Thompson stated in 2012 there would be an intersection improvement project, undefined as to which intersection it would be, increasing from $500,000 to $550,000 and again in 2013 another intersection project at $600,000, and final section of Gateway Drive, request from NDDOT for concurrence that they want to rehab from I-29 to North 55th; project that was on last year's submittal was Columbia Road from 36th Ave.S. to 47th was moved down because it wasn't programmed, and final project would be Columbia Road from DeMers to 22nd but looking at changing that to intersection of Columbia and 17th Ave., similar to what did at 24th and Columbia for $6 million on first draft to just an intersection, downgraded that from $6 million to $3.5 million.

Year 2014: Mr. Thompson stated this includes projects beyond the scope of the 2009-2012 and have Washington Street underpass at $15 million, are doing rescoping of that and lot of that depends on how treat DeMers and Washington; Kennedy Bridge repaint would be across the border project as well and also talked with Earl Haugen, MPO, and asked him which project would be most beneficial to use traffic volumes in some of the areas like Columbia Road, on 32nd and 38th and biggest bang for the buck as far as dollars and to reduce traffic congestion around the city would be widening of 42nd Street, south end of it, and 17th to 32nd; and that are looking at estimating that by mid-November.

He stated he is asking the committee to ratify this list and go to COW with it, and asked if any changes they would like to make. He stated that some of the projects on page 2 of the listing are so they know what is out there to be done, some so expensive and if ever would get up to that if keep maintaining the infrastructure that we already have. He stated there are big pushes on rehab. and have seen 30% increase in construction costs in the last 2 years.

Grasser stated that some discussion they may want to have with the committee is when have limited federal dollars if there is a proportion that they should tend to look at over a long term or allocate towards street reconstruction vs. system expansion vs. system extensions - but we have spent money on 55th Ave.S. and that would be a new extension, opening up a new area and probably special assess the local share of that type of thing, and have capacity enhancements which would be more like 42nd Street or those types of projects where widening and trying to get capacity, and have reconstruction needs. Columbia Road is starting to fall into both of those categories of needing reconstruction because pavement is getting old and bad and also needs capacity issues and need to include that in our long range planning of utilities and paving. Kreun asked if could do a short piece of forcemain at same time as doing reconstruction. Grasser stated have to look at how we coordinate that because when deal with shorter pieces pay more; would be less enthusiastic about breaking up forcemain work into segments.

Grasser stated that 2009, 2010 and 2011 are pretty well fixed as far as the DOT as to how they allocate their money. Some of the items on page 2 will throw in as an earmark request.

Kreun asked if there was a new law or change in type of horn that the RR uses in the next year or two, and it was noted that some of that has already been implemented. Grasser stated there are options they have talked about, not sure how they go through the process, but can take their horns and turn 90 degrees so pointed towards the traffic rather than down the track which means they don't have to throw out quite as many decibels because you are focusing on the people and want to get their attention. Kreun stated that if you run across that, research that a little so we have some answers and when implementation date has to be completed.

Grasser stated that they had some discussion re. 48th Street at Finance recognizing that there are probably some property owners that may not be enamored with selling land for development or for construction, and would like to wait until we have the PCR done so have refined look at costs and issues, would not like discussing a change until have that information and have it in here in 2010 as per the strong request we made to the NDDOT to get it in. Kreun stated that one of the things they learned in the underpass for 42nd is that you don't make the State work hard to get all the things done, and then say we are not interested, that we got our hands slapped. Grasser stated that it is also an expensive plan because we will invest a lot of time into a PCR.

Moved by McNamara and seconded by Kreun that we approve the list and send to committee of the whole. Motion carried.

2. Transportation Enhancement requests and Safe Routes to School requests.
John Thompson reported there are 2 bikeway projects, first priority would be S. Washington Street, a path that would extend from 47th Avenue going south to 55th on the west side of Washington Street; the other path along English Coulee between 17th and 24th, is in tough condition, was originally an asphalt path and a portion of that was paved, and if approved would be partially funded by the match and would be funded by the Park District, is their path and looking at developing these projects in-house, doing design and construction management to save dollars. Grasser stated they get too expensive if get consultant to do a relatively small project. Kreun stated that if we keep staff to do our smaller projects and manage our bigger projects, that is what our goal is. Grasser stated it has been long time since we have tackled big project in-house because we don't have the staff and expertise. He stated they couldn't justify bringing these in for request if going to consult this out, does mean we have to develop a couple areas of expertise within our own department to do these because the DOT needs plans, etc. submitted in certain formats and on certain types of software but it is smart thing to do and to access these federal dollars. Thompson stated these projects are between $150,00 and $200,000 each.

He stated last project is safe routes to school - multiple projects and Jane Williams is putting in for those, she had 2 large projects to be constructed in 2008 and this will be 2008 request for projects in 2009, pretty much all over the city and have in order of our preference, 1 through 7.

Grasser stated that the Safe Routes to School Program is another targeted federal dollar program where actually the construction items are 100% funded by the federal government, and that there is front end overhead and we are looking at doing that in-house and Jane is working on the PCR and made the submittal for 2007 for 2008s and she is working on the PCR and will eventually bring that to the city council sand then develop the plans and specs. and bids in-house, otherwise these smaller targeted programs cost too much for consultants. Kreun asked if they are working with Safe Kids Coalition and it was noted that they are.

Grasser stated that one of the things they look at when doing Safe Routes to School Program and when dealing with people of different opinions about where your projects are, sometimes get a thought about doing something at a certain location -(bus turnout) and discouraged that project because if do bus turnout it was going to end up with a lot of paving in front of somebody's single family home and would have resulted in removal of bunch of trees, and they are trying to target things that are non-controversial with this program.

Thompson stated most of them are handicapped accessible ramps and sidewalks that are missing and also some new technology to have a removable sign re. speed limit and take records of what the speeds were. He stated they are looking for a motion to proceed to the committee of the whole.

Motion by McNamara and Kreun to proceed to committee of the whole. Motion carried.

The meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m.

Alice Fontaine
City Clerk