Council Minutes

COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
Monday, September 20, 1999 - 12:00 Noon

Mayor Owens called the meeting of the Committee of the Whole to order on Monday, September 20, 1999. Roll call: Council Members Brooks, Lucke, Hamerlik, Bouley, Glassheim, Carpenter, Lunak, Klave, Beyer, Babinchak, Bakken, Hafner, Martinson - 13; absent: Council Member Polovitz - 1.

1. Matter of cost matrix.

Mayor Owens announced that an updated listing prepared by herself and staff of the potential proposals for funding had been placed on council members’ desks; that the DDC projects, Town Square, Streetscape and Walkway are items that are eligible for expense for program income and do have another funding source and asked that the police department make their presentation prior to discussion.

Lt. Byron Sieber stated that originally this building was to become a true public safety building, that currently they house the ND Highway Patrol, Emergency Management Office, Municipal Court and Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP), and that following the disaster in 1997 now feel they have an opportunity to bring Sheriff’s Office into this building and serve the needs of the citizens more efficiently, and listed reasons why this should be funded and made short presentation of how they would co-share the building (dry-lab, shooting range, training room, kitchen area and cafeteria area, activity room). He stated that in terms of sq.ft., their old facility was 6200 sq.ft., temp. location 5040 and looking at an agreement of swapping 8800 sq. ft. with 4800 sq.ft. with balance co-shared. He stated major concerns are with Emg. Mgmt., PSAP, Highway Patrol. He stated that all 6 agencies in the buildings have needs and putting all under one roof. He reported that the reasons for costs increasing - $1.6 million for EOC and Dispatch Center and the 2000 CIP budget, $750,000 for remodeling the police department, looking at new addition being flood and tornado resistant as well as HazMat resistant which drives cost up, that Sheriff’s needs much greater than what affording them at 8800 sq.ft. and future considerations by 2019 for all 6 of these agencies.

Connie Triplett, Grand Forks County Commissioner, stated that the Commission has not met and discussed this topic but that she attended several meetings with Sheriff Hill and members of the police department, etc. to discuss this proposal. She stated that when last discussed they talked about an even swap of space currently being held by the Public Health in return for space for the Sheriff’s Office moving into the Police Building, with the exception that it would not provide them garage space, which they will have to find off-site. She stated that it has been brought to their attention that the police department is very short of space in the building and would like to use part of the Health Department space, and there was discussion as to whether the Sheriff’s Office could get by with less space; that this is really not an acceptable proposal to the County for the long term and if council goes forward with the building project so that the Sheriff’s Office could have space in the expanded space in the future they would probably make do with less at the present time but not an option for long term. She stated that if the council goes forward with an expansion project they will work with them in terms of helping to design a
public safety building that will work for the whole community for the long term; and that without
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conversations with the rest of the Commission she would not be able to answer any questions re. County’s contribution but believes they have committed to the Sheriff’s Department that they would find or build them adequate garage space when this move takes place.

Sheriff Dan Hill stated that as Public Health Department is moving into the County Building, it makes it very convenient for them to join the police department and other public safety entities in that building and would certainly benefit the citizens of the city and county to have them located in one place. He stated they have discussed the move and would accept less space provided the new addition was built. It was noted that the Health Department will be using approx. 7500 sq.ft. Sheriff Hill stated that their building that was flooded were using approx. 5500 sq.ft., that their temporary location provide them with a little over 5,000 sq.ft. and that in the last 20 years have gone from 8 people to 30 people.

Chief Packett stated that council has already approved their short term use of the southend fire station for community services bureau, putting the 11 people on a temporary basis because they are working out of a flood house now, obvious cost savings as this allows them to put everybody under one roof over a long term time period. He stated they spend the CDBG money now for the addition or come back eventually with a need for decentralized operations because of space concerns and talking bond and general fund money.

Council Member Hamerlik expressed concerns re location - spill, derailment, flood and possible marooning in an area, and how overcome that negative. Lt. Sieber stated they are along side a RR track, that they can have derailments, concerned with potential hazards and incidents that could happen - have to have initial protection for emergency services, and if building constructed way they view it to bring the EOC and Dispatch Center out of a basement level which can be flood prone either from flooding or a ground table problem, but to have it ventilated in such a fashion that you can shut down air handlers, but have fresh air pumped into the facility so can continue using it rather than evacuating it. He stated it seems much more practical to continue
with make this facility resistant to what impacts they might have rather than building an
entire new structure somewhere else in the future.

Council Member Carpenter asked what each agency now has in the building; Lt. Sieber stated total sq.ft. of building is just over 49,000 sq.ft. but no breakdown of what each agency has, but would bring those figures back.. Lt. Sieber reported Pollson WCN are experts in police buildings, constructed over 100 nation-wide and are willing to come and speak to the council to discuss the report as well as the final draft.

Council Member Hafner stated he was supporter of co-locating agencies but asked where in the plan does the City benefit; Lt. Sieber stated pay-off more than just structural and design, people can do one-stop shop, technology support which they co-share with the Sheriff’s office, computer system and if separate facilities huge logistical problems. Pay-off in people in the
building, technology that goes with it and specialized things such as photo-lab and drug blood
drawing lab that they can co-share.

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Council Member Brooks stated they are asked to build 23-25,000 sq. ft. addition but in a year or more the civic auditorium will be empty because of the Aurora, maybe should pursue and look at feasibility of using civic auditorium rather than building an addition. Lt. Sieber stated there are certain members of the council that would like to see that on the tax rolls and probably be sold as well, but separates them and decentralizes them and doesn’t make effective use of having public safety functions under the same roof.

Council Member Carpenter stated he had some concerns with the report re. population figures for both the city and county and increases in staff, and asked what additional maintenance, utilities, etc. cost for this large expansion and who is going to be paying for it, is that in police budget or county budget. Chief Packett stated any addition to their facility would require additional money to be budgeted each year to the police building budget. He stated that the agreement with the County is a swap of 8800 sq.ft. for health department, and City has agreed to pick up that equivalent cost for the County, but for the addition itself the architect has not given them those figures for utility costs. It was noted that those would then be City costs unless some other arrangements that the City made with other agencies. The General Fund Police budget including grants is about $5.5 million for next year, total budget including personnel, CIP, etc.; and it was noted that they do have lease agreements with the Highway Patrol for leased space.

Carpenter asked what the total project cost is; Chief Packett stated they estimated it at about $3.3 to $3.4 million and they have indicated may have additional costs above and beyond that which takes over the $4 million. He stated that the $200,000 for the architects was not included in the $4 million figure. Council Member Carpenter stated he has been opposed to the southside fire station going to the police department, but that was before they had discussion of an excess of a $4 or $5 million addition, and asked if it made sense to have a southside police office that might
reduce the cost of this or greatly reduce the cost. Chief Packett stated it would be their intent that
the use of the southside fire station would be temporary short-term until such time as they would find permanent quarters for the technical services bureau or the uniformed patrol bureau, those plans are still on the drawing board, and if get building addition and have long term to bring those bureaus all under one roof, eventually council can dispose of that property surplus and put it back on the tax rolls, etc. but if don’t get the building addition then would have long term needs decentralizing their people. Council Member Carpenter stated it might be less expensive to use that building for police now rather than size of the proposed expansion of the current police department.

Council Member Klave expressed concern on cost in the report which is based on $140.44 sq.ft. and because of heavy construction going on in the city can’t guarantee that $4.1 to $4.5 million will be a firm figure; and that mandatory completion date will also be a factor based into bid.

Council Member Hamerlik stated he had one item that should have been submitted to be
considered by staff and that is a project that is not on the listing, and moved that we include in the CDBG funding $875,000 for small business from the area of flood rehab and that in doing so
it would be assumed that the same application that was used before would be used and that no new applications would be accepted, and further that any of those applications, if there was an
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addendum that could be included for consideration of other expenses and the process would be the same except that the $100,000 maximum be removed; and the motion was seconded by Council Member Lunak.

Council Member Hamerlik stated his intent was to include it in the list, that listing isn’t really on the table other than a recommendation from the Mayor and staff, that it be one of the projects that they plan to fund; and that criteria would be the same as before by those who had applied before (which had to show physical damage).

There was some discussion as to the process; Council Member Carpenter stated that when they went through the process last time and actually allocated the dollars, that they fairly allocated money to applicants to meet their needs and what was allocated to them was fair and would be uncomfortable just making a pot of money available to the same ones and increasing their percentage awards; and would encourage keeping it off the list. Council Member Beyer noted that one of the criteria was that businesses had to be viable and agreed with Council Member Carpenter’s comments. Council Member Lunak stated this program helped a lot of people and businesses, and that he has talked to some business people and they need help.

COUNCIL MEMBER HAFNER EXCUSED

Council Member Glassheim stated that the downtown funding went into buildings, repair ruined buildings but was not for operation and maintenance, not for inventory, not for business but was for buildings to restore buildings damaged, and when went through process some people applied in the grant program for operating money and committee focused on the South Washington and wherever else applications were coming from, focused on what was damage, but now not coming back for damage but coming back for cash flow and operation and maintenance, but very difficult program to evaluate properly, cannot give people what they say they want, but to come up with criteria that match whether by job creation, amount of damage.

After further discussion and upon call for the question and upon roll call vote the following voted “aye”: Council Members Brooks, Lucke, Hamerlik, Lunak, Babinchak, Klave, Martinson - 7; voting “nay”: Council Members Bouley, Glassheim, Carpenter, Beyer, Bakken - 5. Mayor Owens declared the motion carried and that the $875,000 will appear on the listing.

There was some discussion as to process for consideration of items on the listing, time line on this, get information so can vote on these issues. Mayor Owens stated that in visiting with staff there are some projects that need to move forward - some under time line and some not.

Ken Vein, city engineer, stated there are a number of infrastructure projects where looking for decisions as soon as possible because of the February 25 deadline to get these projects under
contract: (Sewer Rehab project out for bids, along with Industrial Park lift station and the Downtown Mill and Overlay, those need to have some clear understanding of where going with
them as soon as possible; other ones: GIS services, water system improvements and street repair in order to get design completed in time); he needs some direction and that they went ahead and
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put some contracts together and many went through public service last week and will be on the council floor tonight for consideration; and if going to proceed, need to have decisions take place as soon as possible.

Council Member Beyer asked if they had received ruling if they can over-budget CDBG money and when would they get that decision; that if they can’t over-budget, listing is inappropriate and there are things they have to prioritize and do. John O’Leary, Urban Development, stated he talked to senior officials from HUD out of Denver regional office and no one has ever asked them about this before and they are in the process of consulting to see if this can be done, there are some logistical issues with the way they draw down money and the way they budget money within the CDBG program that have to do with computers and how they set up programs and whether it’s physically possible under the existing program to do this, and other is policy, need to proceed down this track with or without HUD approval now and February, that if in February they tell you that you can’t over-budget and then draw line on February25 and can’t move projects back and forth, that some of these projects change, get high or low, and between now and February we assume that everything that’s on that list is going to be financed with a HUD project, and that does cost more because kicks in Davis-Bacon, does kick in some admin, but also covers you in the event that it won’t be possible to double budget as suggested; that they
will proceed as staff as though they can do that and even if can’t , this will allow you to give
council as much flexibility as possible in final hours of the CDBG grant to reallocate funds.

Mayor Owens stated that she was asking staff to list projects that are immediate needs and that are already in progress, so council will know what looking at tonight. Council Member Babinchak stated they should not only look at those in engineering that have to move forward because of a timeline of design, should make decision based on whole amount of money that they are going to put forth.

Council Member Glassheim stated that the DDC projects $387,000 now recommending out of program income at a later point and not put them into the listing. He stated there is $16.7 million in Contingencies and $32.1 million in requests minus $387,000, leaves $31.8 plus $875,000, $32.6, and that the $9 million for JDA will be the first to go. Mr. O’Leary stated they tried to do with listing is to budget enough projects to absolutely assure that all $171 million allocated and if start with top, that priority listing that the council needs to determine either now or tonight, what are top priorities, and what lowest priorities. He stated there are two plug figures, one is $9 million for JDA and other is $9 million in infrastructure projects. Mayor Owens stated that if they remove the $9 million for the JDA and the $9 million for the water system improvements which are going to be done anyway as already started, then are close to enough money. Mr. O’Leary stated that we have projects that need design time and bidding process before you can actually award project, and if bring those projects to the edge and decide not to do them still have flexibility to do that with few of them and which fall out because of delayed decision.

It was moved by Council Member Glassheim that we recommend to council that we adopt all of
the items except the police department building addition be held out for further discussion. Council Member Beyer seconded the motion.
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Council Member Glassheim stated that his motion would not mean that they don’t fund the police department because if take that out and take the two plugs out, down to $10 million expenditures out of $16 million and still a question of whether want to fund the police department addition and at how much, but would be saying they would approving $10 million in projects and $9 for water system and $9 for JDA and removing the DDC projects of $387,000.

After further discussion, it was moved by Council Member Hamerlik that we table that motion until a special city council meeting is called for as soon as possible and that be the only item on the agenda. Council Member Martinson seconded the motion. Motion carried.

ADJOURN

It was moved by Council Member Lucke and seconded by Council Member Bakken to adjourn; meeting adjourned at 1:50 p.m.

Alice Fontaine, City Clerk

Dated: 9/23/99.