Committee Minutes

MINUTES--SERVICE/SAFETY STANDBY COMMITTEE
Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 4:30 p.m._____________________

Members present: Committee Chair Kreun, Brooks. Also present were Council Member Christensen, ex-officio; Dennis Potter, Al Grasser, Todd Feland, staff; Mike Kuntz, ICON, Jon Ramsey and John Erickson.

1. Cade Cove development issues.
Chairman Kreun stated there is one issue on the table but also expands into a larger issue that has been discussed at several other meetings -having property in the city limits or annexing property into the city limits that is on the wet side of the dike, and has been part of major discussion on how that should be developed or should it be developed, and when and if do develop how do we provide services to that area; that Mr. Swanson has given us a quick overview of several questions that we asked at one of our other informal meeting and asked that Mr. Potter give our guests a copy of the Memo.

Kreun stated he thought Mr. Bushfield brought this property into being (1996) and there is an area, Shady Ridge, that was being brought into the city limits and there is area in there with annexation date of 2014, other areas already in the city limits and some other areas that would like to be annexed into the city and there has been some discussion and some proposals on different plots of land and how it should be divided and the sewer systems that we have, that the area that is in the city limits at this time that we were able to make the lots 1 or 1.5 acre size to accommodate septic systems with city water. Discussion becomes how do we provide the remainder of the city services, whether more water or streets and storm sewers, septic or sanitary sewers, etc. are before us at this point in time.

He stated to start our discussion asked for a presentation of what developers expectations are, what development will be like and where and how it will affect our infrastructure in there.

Mike Kuntz made a presentation showing area - high-end townhomes, 2 units per building, and want to stay in the big home theme that is already established out there; this property is in the city limits; and they want to go from single family to R-2 and that is what they are asking for at this point; that there are some other issues and that they met with Al Grasser and Joe Kalenze and understand City's concerns and perhaps change their plans a little and move their homes a little closer to the street leaving more room in the backyards and try to work with that 40,000 sq.ft. number, and will downsize the project from 14 units to 12; that they need the R-2 and feel design and project is of equal class with other buildings that are out there, half sold and less than 20 others. He stated one of things they spent a lot of time talking with Dennis Potter, they did not come up with a plan to develop, people came to them and asked them to consider developing the real estate with an idea of upper-end townhomes and that is how the project started and came out of the demand and the market as opposed to them creating this project.

Kreun stated one of the concerns they have and has been brought up before is the sanitary sewer service, and in order to accommodate the city portion that are already within the limits of the city, we developed our Code as far as setting up the septic system and running city water to those areas, that as more of this came to light and higher and higher density was coming in to play and when look at the area that is coming in in 2014, then the question came is it prudent to go with the septic system or to design a sanitary sewer system that would hook up to our existing system and go out to the lift stations, that becomes the issue and how do we want to annex the remainder of area not within the city limits as there have been some requests already to look at that, and before saying yes or no to your request of rezoning from R-1 to R-2 we wanted to address some of the bigger issues so if you were so inclined you could be a part of that up-graded sewer system type scenario, that we can by-pass or override if come to an agreement here, the Planning and Zoning Commission's recommendation and still put it on as preliminary next Monday night.

Mr. Erickson stated they have option, 10-year option, first right of refusal, for an additional piece of property, have interest in developing across the street, that there is a piece of land dedicated to the Park District, and interested in developing balance of that property.

Kreun reported that at their last information gathering meeting was to ask the city attorney about whether we should or should not annex or de-annex, and do we want to have property in the city limits being developed that is on the wet side of the dike, becomes huge political issue and if we had not had property within the city limits on the wet side of the dike, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, and would be in privy of County Planning and Zoning - There have been two issues that have been brought up, one of pieces of property already in the city limits, and the portion coming in in 2014 and very difficult not to take unless we go through this process which is difficult or impossible to do (de-annex), and then how much do we want to take in and how much service do we want to provide. He stated another proposal was brought forward with the 100-year levee system to protect certain areas in there and would be designed and certified by someone other than the city and they would have to have us maintain it, that turned out to be an issue that our city attorney is recommending against because of the liability issues.

Kreun stated to take the annexation as a committee first and give us thoughts ad concerns on the annexation portion of this parcel of land.

Todd Feland reported present.

Christensen stated that he is familiar with the history of 2.5 vs. 5 acres, County zoning and septics, etc. and read in P & Z minutes where one of the commissioners is talking about the size of the project and probably that is why went from 14 to 12 units, and that if the City is going to allow building out there, not sure we have to annex it and to provide services. Annexation, do that to collect revenue, but wondering how committee feels if we were to put a lift station out there, whether that could be done this year.

Mr. Grasser stated the way we develop in Grand Forks , there is rule to do development contiguous to your last development so can do orderly infrastructure development, that they have not told people they can't develop in areas like this, and have told developers that if they choose to do this, they need to bear the cost of providing that infrastructure; that in Deacon's Gardens installed their own lift station with the idea that the city will tie into that line and we have our facilities available, the lift station will disappear and basically turn into a manhole, but in the meantime they are responsible for operating and maintaining that system; and that the choices are either tell a developer, you can't build there and not going to allow it, or you bear the cost or the City can bring money to the issue; this question has come up for almost the last 10 years and the reason they have given the developer is that if you want to develop out there, we are not ready and one thing you want to plan on doing is to put in a lift station. Christensen stated they are ready, there are homes being built north of Ray LeClerc's place, and asked when can they build the lift station. Mr. Feland stated he didn't think that financing was the thing that was holding it up, when get plans and specs.: and Mr. Grasser stated they would have to negotiate a property from Crary and need authorization from council to proceed on building it, and could be under construction this fall. Kreun stated that everything that can be developed out here will go to that lift station. Christensen stated he would like to explore only doing the lift station, finding the money. Mr. Grasser stated they can find technical answers to however you want that area to develop and boils down to whatever density you want to allow and once know those answers, good to go, Mr. Feland stated that the City has always paid for the lift station and the associated forcemain.

Christensen stated big issue for the City is how you annex on the wet side of the dike and have to look to see how to get payment for services in lieu of taxes; Kreun stated only difference in this issue is assessment for the permanent dike system and if we annex they are going to wind up with garbage, fire, police. Kreun stated the only thing that becomes an issue for the responsibility for the City is what they did, and is supposed to be disclosure on their plat; and disclosure on their warranty deed; that they did suggest that and the city attorney wrote up a suggestion to get that on the warranty deed and on newer plats when they come in. Mr. Grasser stated they would have to replat this area. Mr. Ramsey stated they are buying that property from Darrell and Lavonne Adams and they and their relatives own all of the land around there except for several areas and don't expect any problems and they will be more concerned about what constructing out there. It was stated that it would be political issue to annex property on the wet side of the dike but don't have to do that yet; that install the lift station and charge them for part of it and it is on the dry side of the dike.

Kreun stated this is the better method of starting the process, to provide the services and also to start the process of annexation of that unannexed land and then have a contiguous piece where able to service it under normal scenario and that gives developer option of working with us or still have the option of septic system because those lots are big enough.
Mr. Grasser stated he didn't think septic system was the way to go; the developers stated they are ready to start construction the end of May, and occupancy in October, November but can be a little flexible. Mr. Grasser stated they can assess the cost because it is all within the city limits; and also need to get a watermain in there. Kreun stated they want to take those people off rural water because we have an agreement with Rural Water as they have capacity issues; developers stated they can tap in, only a 5" main. Mr. Grasser stated you end up with a whole development process out there, for sewer, water, streets and what hearing from the committee is that we anticipate and allow that area to develop as per any normal development but that it is on the wet side of the dike and take some technical issues to help address that but as far as density and uses, we will provide the services they need.

Christensen stated when we have a flood, and as far as our utilities they are just shut down and those people have to figure out how they are going to protect themselves and that another council won't abandon them, will probably run some dirt on the road as they have done before. Mr. Grasser stated that would be tough; and when they go through the entire development probably require min. elevation on the plats, and make a min. ground elevation 1 ft. above the new remapping areas. Developers stated that is what they were doing; and are not building basements.

Kreun stated what he would like to do from this committee is take the information that we have gathered over the last several years and Mr. Adams and Mr. Brewers and this group and from our city engineering office that we would like to proceed with building a lift station to service that entire area out there for the future development of the Shady Ridge Estates and proceed with engineering department to set guidelines and get the specs.

Brooks and Kreun moved that we make a recommendation to the council to direct staff to put plans and specifications and alternative methods of financing, if necessary, to put lift station to service the Shady Ridge area.

Mr. Grasser stated that goes almost without saying that anytime we are dealing with the developer and if they want to come in and put all the infrastructure in themselves and meet city specs. , that is pretty standard.

Upon call for the question, the motion carried.

Mr. Grasser stated he would work out the language so full disclosure comes about, he stated he was talking about 1 ft. above which is higher than first floor and that is how putting it on the plats.

ADJOURN

It was moved by Brooks and Kreun to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried.

Alice Fontaine
City Clerk