Working Session

Mayor and City Council Work Session
April 27, 2005 – 5:00 p.m.
A101

Council Members Present: Bob Brooks (joined meeting in progress), Doug Christensen, Hal Gershman, Eliot Glassheim, Gerald Hamerlik, Dorette Kerian (joined meeting in progress), Curt Kreun.
Others Present: Mayor Brown, Rick Duquette, John Schmisek, John Packett, Pete O’Neill, Mike Flermoen, Maureen Storstad, Daryl Hovland, Roxanne Fiala, Greg Hoover, Don Shields, Dennis Potter, Al Grasser, Todd Feland.

Mayor Brown called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m.

Duquette stated that before moving into the actual agenda for the meeting he would like to bring the group up to date on the discussions with the County on the move of PSAP and Emergency Management into the old County Jail and the move of Municipal Court to the new County Jail site. He added that they also discussed the move of the Highway Patrol to the Fire/Police training site in the industrial park. He continued that preliminary discussions were held with the County and that Christensen and Kreun had also been involved in the meeting. He stated that at this time the County is looking for a sense from the Council that they are interested in pursuing the moves, and in particular, with the municipal court move to the new jail location, the City would have the opportunity to piggyback on with the County’s architect in the design for the court area. He continued that on a preliminary basis we could fund this by using part of the money already in the CIP that had been earmarked for the PD expansion and then would have the rest of the money available to use for remodeling within the PD building.

Duquette informed the group that the County would like a decision from us fairly quickly on this item and it would be his request that this come forward to the group at the May 9 COW meeting. He continued that the urgency comes from the County’s desire to finalize the shell of their building and need to know whether to include our space in their design. He shared with the group a tentative layout for the facility and pointed out where the Court annex would be located per the recent meeting. The group asked whether the City would be leasing this space from the County or would we own it. Duquette responded that we would actually construct and own the annex ourselves, but would reimburse the County for utilities. The group discussed how to proceed on this matter with consensus being that locating the Court with the new jail facility is a good idea and expressed concerns with needing to finalize a decision on this matter before the full budget process can be completed. Duquette added that by moving on this at the time when the County is still in the design phase should save the City in the design fees. Duquette stated that he will have the next meeting with those involved on Monday and just needs to convey to them a consensus of the group.

(Brooks arrived.)

Schmisek added that the money to fund this is already in the CIP that was presented and that the only change would be approximately $350,000 would be used to construct the new court area and the remaining $50,000 would be used to remodel the existing Police Building. He stated that this is budgeted in the Public Building Fund, which is where policy has directed this type of expenditure come from.

Duquette stated that he will continue to meet with the County on a preliminary basis and will continue to report back to the group at future planning meetings to keep them abreast as the County project moves on.

1) Fire Department Capital Needs.

Pete O’Neill, Fire Chief, displayed a map for the group that shows the location of the existing fire stations in the City.

(Kerian Arrives.)

He noted for the group that the national standard for adequate fire protection is to have a response time within 5 minutes for first on scene. He noted that the district that can be reached in that time is a radius approximately 1.5 miles from the station. He explained that is based on an average of 1 minute dispatch time, 1 minute for suiting up, and 3 minutes drive time, done in normal traffic and weather conditions. He pointed out that based on that standard, there is a clear need for additional fire stations in our community, as the areas that are seeing the largest growth are currently not reachable within 5 minutes. He pointed out on the map the location of two additional proposed stations, a location at approximately 47th Avenue South and Cherry St. and a location in the industrial park at the Proposed Fire and Police Training Site. O’Neill continued that the actual ideal location for the Central Fire Station would be to move it to a location close to 13th Ave S and Cherry St, however due to a number of reasons the move is not practical.

(Kreun departs meeting.)

O’Neill stated that should the proposed stations be added, there would be additional personnel needed. He continued that he would see proposed staffing levels to coincide with those of the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). He clarified that he is not asking the Council to approve the adoption of this standard as that would require us to meet all of the standards they set, but merely to implement the staffing level standards.

O’Neill informed the group that the City currently has an Insurance Service Officer (ISO) rating of a 3 which is very good and only a few other cities in North Dakota have that rating. He informed the group that this is the rating that determines the insurance rates that are charged to businesses and homeowners. He explained that be adding the proposed stations and staffing will increase our rating which will benefit business and homeowners by decreasing their insurance premiums. He stated that with the current rating of ISO 3, property insurance premiums are $15.2 million and a change to an ISO 2 rating would decrease the premiums to $14.4 million. He commented that the change has the most effect on premiums for businesses, as homeowners are calculated based on a community-wide averaging system.

O’Neill stated that another consideration in adding the proposed stations and staffing would be for increased safety for the firefighters themselves. He continued that the present staffing level is less that the department had in 1972 and, in fact, the department has only added 2 positions in the last 30 years – an administrative professional and a training officer. O’Neill reviewed proposed staffing scenarios with the group as detailed in his handout. Highlights of which would be the addition of 12 personnel: 3 Fire Captains, 3 Fire Apparatus Specialists, and 6 Firefighters. He stated that this would allow a daily shift minimum of 18 people utilizing 4 engines, 1 ladder truck, and 1 crew floating between and engine and a rescue truck and 1 command vehicle. Our current daily shift minimum is 14 people who are based in 3 stations utilizing 3 fire engines, 1 ladder truck, and 1 command vehicle.

O’Neill continued with a review of the revised proposed CIP schedule which includes for 2006 $350,000; $50,000 of which would be for relocation of the drill tower from the State Mill Road site to the Industrial Park site and $300,000 of which would be for infrastructure at the site. He continued that in 2007, they propose $400,000 to remodel the existing N. Columbia Road station, as once the upgrade to that street is done they will be losing part of their apron and also will be unable to back the trucks in as they do now. The proposed remodel will include creating 2 drive through bays for the trucks. Hamerlik inquired whether this amount included the cost for additional paving for the drive through area. O’Neill stated that he did not recall if this estimate included the paving, but it is a rough estimate. He continued that the remodel will also include a facelift for the building including a roof change to a slant design, as the current flat roof has some leak problems, and an update of the outside of the facility so that it fits with the look of surrounding buildings.

In 2008, $1,850,000 would be requested for construction of the station on the industrial park site. He continued that this facility would include classroom space that would be utilized by both the Police and Fire Department’s for training purposes. The engine for this station would be transferred from one of the other stations. He stated that the Fire Department goal is to continue to expand their role in becoming a regional training site for other fire departments. He informed the group of some of their recent training sessions that had taken place, both in town and when they took their trailer to Minot and Bismarck. He added that on both of those occasions the training fee that was charged covered the full cost to the City of providing this training to the other communities. He informed the group that for in town sessions they have been able to use on-duty personnel to conduct the training sessions and that Ferrell gas donates the fuel needed. He noted that they have also had a policy that they will not charge other departments within Grand Forks County. He stated that they have just finished a session with Thompson’s department and will have Hatton coming in on May 11. The group discussed that perhaps this is an area where we should be letting these neighbors know that their community is receiving this benefit. O’Neill stated that they will be scheduling an elected official/media day in the near future at which time they will be more publicly acknowledging this service. The group discussed that this is one of the many ways that we can continue to build goodwill with our neighbors for little or no cost.

O’Neill continued that in 2009 the proposed CIP calls for $1,020,000, of which $800,000 would be used for the construction of the proposed station in the area near Optimist Park at 47th Ave S and Cherry St. and $220,000 would be used to purchase a fire engine for that station. He continued that following the construction of this station staffing levels would be :

Station #1 6 people minimum
Station #2 3-4 people minimum
Station #3 3-4 people minimum
Station #4 3 people minimum
Station # 5 3-5 people minimum

This would bring our daily shift staffing to the proposed 18 minimum. He continued that the present 14 person staffing level that we have is a barebones level and that should a major fire event occur, we are essentially out of business for fighting a second fire event or to provide backup to an emergency situation at the initial fire event until additional people could be called back to work. He explained that an increase to the 18 person level would allow for us to become more than a one shot fire department, where we do not have staffing on shift to allow for backup to the first waive of firefighters that arrive on scene. By increasing the staffing level we would gain the ability to respond to multiple events and also to provide support to “rescue the rescuers” should that need ever arise. He commented that our department has been lucky enough to have never lost a firefighter in the line of duty.

Kerian inquired whether it is uncommon for a department in a community our size to be a one shot department. O’Neill stated that it varies and added that Bismarck is also at the same level that we are.

Hamerlik inquired how we address the fire response time need taking into account that the bulk of our calls are first responder calls. O’Neill stated that the department would normally respond to the fire first, as Altru will be coming to the medical call, just typically takes them longer to respond in most areas of town, due to their location. The group discussed current ambulance staffing that Altru maintains. O’Neill stated that they had in the past discussed using a different vehicle to respond to medical calls, but it has proven to be most efficient to send the truck, as then if a fire in that area occurs the truck can go straight to the scene. O’Neill added that at one time they considered discontinuing the response to these calls, but he stated that the moral belief that they are there to provide assistance when needed, as well as a weighing of the number of lives that have been saved versus the relatively low cost for responding has always come out in favor of our continuing to respond.

Hamerlik brought up that several years ago there was a legislative bill that was brought up that would have required the University to reimburse the City for approximately $200,000 for false alarms, but the Council did not heavily pursue it. He suggested that perhaps it is time to revisit this matter.

Schmisek stated that along those lines, in the past they have discussed the possibility of recouping about $200,000 a year by beginning to charge insurance companies for the first responder calls. O’Neill commented that one reason that they have not been in favor of this in the past is that, being the Fire Department, people expect them to respond as something they get for paying their taxes.

Brooks stated that it would be very helpful to have a smaller version of the map that was displayed detailing the fire coverage. O’Neill stated that they will work on providing that to the group.

Christensen requested that they receive a new spreadsheet of the dollars that are generated from mills that are currently being used for capital items. He stated that would help in looking at all of the capital requests and being able to prioritize them. He also requested an updated sales tax infrastructure spreadsheet.

Schmisek commented that as per the policy that they have been working toward, for future budgets, capital items such as the construction of the proposed fire stations would be budgeted under the public building fund.

Christensen stated that he feels that the group needs to start really looking at prioritizing all of these requests and beginning to take a look at which community needs are greatest and then reviewing what we can fund with the mills that we have or what other sources we can find for funding the needs, including maybe shifting away from some items that we have funded in the past and may need to determine if those are really the best use of our dollars. The group discussed the desire to cut mills to aid homeowners who are very concerned with the increasing property tax bills, while balancing the need to be able to continue to fund the level of service we currently have as well as providing funding for some of the capital needs that we have delayed for sometime.

2) Adjourn.

Meeting adjourned at 6:00 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,

Sherie Lundmark
Admin Spec Sr.