Committee Minutes

Service/Safety Standby Committee
Wednesday, January 17, 2007 - - 4:00 p.m.

Page 1 of 4

Kreun called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m. in Room A101, City Hall.

Present at roll call were: Kreun, McNamara, Bakken. Absent: Gershman.

1. Loud Party Ordinance.

Kreun explained that this ordinance is being discussed again for two reasons: that there have been some concerns on the fairness of its enforcement and to consider changing the penalty for the first offense of the ordinance, specifically removing the mandatory minimum fine and allowing for a deferred imposition of sentence and that the goal is to be able to give the police the necessary regulations to be able to shut down a party without being overly strict on offenders. Haylee Kripe stated that on behalf of the students she wanted to thank the committee for being responsive to the concerns that have been brought up and for moving in the direction of allowing judicial discretion for offenders. She continued that the relationship between the students and the City Council has come a long way since January 2006 when the ordinance now on the books was enacted and thanked the Council for continuing to work with the students jointly on matters of concern.

Mike Rocks-McQueen, student senator, echoed appreciation to the Committee for hearing the concerns of the students and stated that their desire is not to be treated differently, but to see a system in place that is fair and allows a chance for mistakes and to learn from those mistakes and encouraged the Committee to add a mandatory warning and decibel level to the ordinance as a means to improve the fairness in enforcement.

Kreun replied that the ordinance is in place to support the community as a whole, not only addressed to the student population and that the overall effect of the ordinance as it currently is on the books has been positive and police have been able to respond to situations and stop the problem.

Some members of the audience spoke and encouraged the committee to also add into the ordinance a provision where the complaint must be called in before the police can respond, rather than now they just can drive by and stop and disburse party, to consider extending the distance in the ordinance to longer than the 50’, and to possibly add hours to the ordinance instead of having it apply 24 hours a day. Kreun stated that he has a concern with putting into the ordinance anything that will keep the police from doing their job of being able to respond to a situation, that in most cases our city police officers did use discretion and gave warnings, that citations issued to students is proportionate to the students population in the City and that prior experience has proven that warnings alone have not handled the situation.

Bakken commented that the problem with enforcement seems to be usually with the response of UND police officers and that we have no control over them and that concern needs to be brought to them. He agreed that there should not be any restriction put on the police for response to a situation that they may find.

Packett stated that overall the numbers of calls for loud party are down in 2006 and that shows the success of students and the City working together to improve the problem. The group discussed that the feedback between the students, city and neighborhood residents is a good thing and want to continue it and that it was important to allow officers to continue to have discretion, and that have seen in most cases that is working.

Alex Reichert, 625 Reeves Dr., local attorney, stated that he has been working with several student clients that have been cited under the existing ordinance and encouraged the committee to add some measurable component of the law, whether decibel level or some other measure, so that offenders could clearly know whether they are at fault or not, also, agrees that discretion can not be legislated, but encouraged the committee to leave more discretion to the judge and that while the proposed change for the first offense is great, the existing fine for subsequent offenses is more strict than for similar offenses that are on the books.

Bakken responded that with the proposed change there will be an opportunity to rely of the judge’s discretion and also for the offender to make a mistake and learn, but after that, people need to take responsibility for their actions and if decide to break the law should be ready to pay the price. Kreun added that the enactment of the existing ordinance came about because of requests from citizens in the community, not at Council’s initiation and that if similar outcry came up regarding another offense, would also look at that. Kreun continued that have seen that a large fine is a deterrent and the fact that we have not had citizen requests to change other areas may indicate that the penalties are adequate to deter those offenses, but in this case, what used to be in place did not work but the changes did see a decrease in instances of loud party complaints.

Rocks-McQueen stated that since complaints seem to be down in 2006 and maybe finish out the year without adding any measurables, but like to see Committee stay open to making changes if the number of complaints starts to go back up.

McNamara requested that Haga gather ordinances from other cities and bring back to the committee for discussion to see if there were any items covered in them that we have not addressed in our ordinance. Kreun asked that the information be brought back to the Committee in two weeks so that we could keep this item moving forward.

McNamara stated that he would also like to see some initiatives started that would address proactive measures to combat binge drinking, which often leads to other problems like the loud party citations. Rocks-McQueen agreed that more education and training efforts are needed and that people need to be taught responsible behavior besides having enforcement to react to offenders.

2. Towing Fees.

McNamara presented some examples of towing cases from around the nation which included prices set by municipalities, towing commissions that had been established, and task forces that had been put in place as a response to situations of abuse in the towing industry. He stated that he did speak with one of the property owners that has had cars towed from its lot and they shared with him that the towing company approached them and pitched that they could take care of cars parking on the lot with no cost to the owner. He commented that while property owner rights need to be protected and they should have a right to remove unauthorized vehicles, there also should be some protections for the offenders so that they are treated fairly in the towing process, which is not happening now and towing companies are violating the current ordinance that is in place.

Margaret Emmanuel of the Public Safety Answering Point stated that currently when a vehicle is towed the towing company is the one calling in to report the tow and they say where the car is being towed from and to and that the only exception is police tows where the information comes in from the police department directly. Kreun stated that the ordinance says that the property owner needs to call for the removal and be the one to call in the tow. Emmanuel replied that when they do ask the towing company reports that the owner has told them to remove the vehicle, but the owners are not reporting the problem to PSAP. The committee discussed that by the ordinance the property owner or manager is supposed to be reporting the tow to the police and that the ordinance require the owner or manager to call the tow company. The group asked whether PSAP refers people to any particular company. Emmanuel reported that they usually tell the people to call a towing company and may give some names, but not directly referring to any one company, but noted that there are only a couple that will do this type of tow and that for Police tows divided between a couple of companies.

The group discussed requirements for signage, what the process should be for having a vehicle towed from your property, and whether it would be appropriate to look at starting to license this type of business. McNamara commented that if we do license the businesses providing this service could be a nominal fee, but main emphasis would be that if the towing was not done in accordance with our ordinances could then pull the suspend or revoke the license to ensure compliance. The group requested that staff compile some information on ordinances and licensing procedures used in other cities and provide that to the committee for the next meeting. It was suggested that the notification and authorization for towing from private property be clarified in the ordinance, as well as addressing the surfing issue.

The group inquired how many tows are occurring on an average weekend night. Emmanuel stated average was 15-20. Bakken requested that PSAP keep track of the number of tows for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights until the next meeting.

Kreun inquired whether a towing company could be designated as a manager under the existing ordinance. Warcup stated that he would need to research and could provide information to the committee later. Bakken agreed that is something that needs to be more clearly defined in our ordinance.

McNamara noted that our ordinance also specifies that tows should go to a 24 hour yard and that also does not seem to be happening and inquired whether there is a 24 hour yard in Grand Forks. Packett stated that Interstate Towing does have a 24 hour yard.

Mike Nowacki, 618 Schroeder Drive, shared his towing story with the committee. He stated that he encouraged the committee to seek an ordinance that will address the amount of fee, require the company to accept credit/debit cards instead of just cash, and address whether they can just tow of their own free will. He added that by requiring the use of credit cards, not only does it add convenience for the person trying to get their car back, but it also provides a record of the charge, whereas with cash and no receipt there is no verification of the transaction.

3. Adjourn.

Meeting adjourned at 5:30 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,


Sherie Lundmark
Admin Spec Sr.