Committee Minutes

Grand Forks City Council Service/Safety Standby Committee
Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 4:00 p.m.__________________________________

The city council of the city of Grand Forks sitting as the Service/Safety Standby Committee met in the council chambers in City Hall on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 at 4:06 p.m. Present at roll call were Council Members Kreun, chair; Bakken, McNamara. .

Others present were John Schmisek, John Thompson, Jane Williams, Melanie Parvey-Biby; Kim Greendahl, Council Member Glassheim, Todd Feland, Al Grasser, Chief Packett, Mark Walker, Don Shields.

1. Traffic analysis report for pedestrian crossing at Washington/8th Avenue North.
Jane Williams, traffic engineer, reported that the current traffic controls at 8th and Washington are stop signs for 8th and Washington does not stop, along Washington there are other streets that intersect with stop signs and 3 intersections - 5th, University and 2nd that are controlled with traffic signals. 5th also has a crossing guard for the elementary students in the morning and in the afternoon, also railroad that runs east of Washington and at 8th is where it continues along and Washington curves to a N/S alignment. This intersection is also the beginning or end of a divided highway for Washington, divided to the north and not to the south, has a posted 30mph speed limit sign, that current daily traffic on 8th is 490 just west of 16th, and 2100 east of N. Wash., and N. Washington has 16,700 south of 8th, and 16,500 north of 8th. She stated re. to the study they did a manual count for half an hour period of time when students would normally have been crossing at this intersection just to give it an idea of the type of traffic that is out there at that time, and volume for southbound was 254 and northbound was 313, westbound was 30 and eastbound was 14, so have ratio of about 13 to 1 which comes into play when looking at whether should we put in 4-way stops or not, because of a 4-way stop you want your traffic to be almost equal so not stopping tremendous amount of traffic for just a few; and there were sufficient gaps for people to make their left turns ands right turns; no recorded accidents in the last 3 years; about 2% trucks during her count, which is about normal, did not observe any pedestrians crossing Washington, there was one that crossed on the west side of the intersection, crossed 8th and went from south to north, and appeared to be a high school student. She stated they went into the analysis of the 4-way stop, and does not meet warrants for 4-way stop, neither volumes or crash data meet warrants for traffic signal at that location and supporting data and infra-background information is also included for those.

The Winship Elem. School should not be using this intersection, should be crossing farther to the south and they were as did not see any of them crossing there. The safe routes to school for Winship is also included in this and shows crossing for elementary students at the signalized intersection and the approved safe route to school. In addition FHWA has recommendations for installing marked crosswalks at what is considered an uncontrolled location, and the reason it is uncontrolled is because Washington N/S does not stop and this is what they would look for our guidelines and that on a multi-lane road, 4 lanes without a raised median, and that is important because when a pedestrian gets halfway across the street if traffic starts to pick up there is no refuge for them, and it falls into greater than 15,000 multi-lane, no raised median, and not recommended at this location, and is not a safe routes to school. She stated she has included the school boundary maps for both middle school and the elementary school to give an idea of where everyone is coming from to attend those two schools; and upon review of all the information, the current traffic control devices appear to be working well, have no data to support anything else, no pedestrians observed on this route, and therefore, are recommending that traffic signal or crosswalk not be installed at this intersection because not warranted.

Glassheim stated that he had asked to look this intersection because at a neighborhood meeting had two people say it was dangerous and that he pursued it - has reviewed this area at 8th and Washington for half hour at several times and did not see anybody crossing and nobody on bikes; that this is a very thorough report and is satisfied and appreciates the time to check this out.

McNamara stated that he called the principal of the school, and that they have had no complaints.

Chair Kreun noted that this does not need to go back to the city council; Grasser stated they would put this information in council members boxes for their information.

2. Snowmobile route.
Melanie Parvey-Biby and Kim Greendahl presented information relative to the route - that in the Riverside Park area the City has assumed the management of all of the property on the wet side of the levee which is where the trail runs through, and there are 3 areas, one at north pedestrian bridge where they haven't taken possession of a certain area by the approach but visited with the contractor, Swingen Construction Co., and they had approved the plan; the parking lot off of DeMers which was Phase IV and they have also given permission to use that area; and one small area under the Kennedy Bridge where they visited with the Phase III contractor and is a spot where the trail can go through that is not under their management and have been talking about the City supplying some orange fencing to keep people restricted to that trail. The trail that they don't have possession of at this time is the top of the levee and the dry side in Riverside. They visited with our engineering staff and representatives from the Snowmobile Club because engineering had brought up the concern that we don't have possession of the dry side of the levee and if by opening a route do we open ourselves up to criticism or concerns from the contractor should snowmobiles go across the tope of the levee. They are working with the Phase III contractor to address that because regardless the City is still going to need to put up some kind of signage and barricades so that people know that that is restricted but the contractor has not reported back as yet, and with the Army Corps of Engineers we will have to do something and are willing to put up some kind of signage so snowmobiles not allowed over the top. Kim stated that in conversations with engineering staff and Snowmobile Club rep. there is a little concern if they open up this route and damage is done in area under the management of another agency, do we potentially open up the snowmobile club to bad political press. She stated in talking to the snowmobile club that perhaps they can look at approving this route making it contingent upon an agreement with the Phase III contractor that they wouldn't hold us responsible but would work together to keep people off, and would be contingent upon getting those agreements.

Chief Packett stated for the committee's information, there is access to 11th Ave. off of 42nd Street for snowmobiles to gas up.

It was noted that matter does not have to go to committee of the whole or city council, as council has tasked staff to do this. It was also noted that when they finalize the decision and recommendation of committee, they can send it past city attorney so if concerns with contingency and review.

Mark Walker, asst. city engineer, stated that if they decide to open it and there was some damage, thinks that we could work with the contractor in sharing some of the costs of restoration of it, and that if ultimately decided we really want to do this, could do it, and if concerned about some of the negative publicity that might come out if it was damaged, and felt it was best to keep it closed, could go that route as well. He stated they have worked a number of times with the contractor to share some responsibility with some other issues and working with the contractor in getting some things done in a more timely manner. Kim stated that have agreed with plowing of the trails this winter - they are responsible for getting that turf established and that hasn't happened yet but we have made a promise to plow those trails so in a trade-off if we would damage them we would foot the responsibility.

Mark Walker stated in terms that we are talking about, it is on the dry side and on top of the levee, and wouldn't anticipate that we would get significant damage from snowmobilers on the top or the sides, and doesn't think it would be a significant amount. Melanie Parvey-Biby stated it is important to note that the contractor realized that even though these aren't established access points, people are doing it, did it last year, and not really creating an issue for them but already an issue there that they might have some long term maintenance if there is damage, and might have the City be responsible to have to repair those area but the amount of damage is minor because they don't start snowmobiling until there is adequate snow.

Chief Packett reported that Sgt. Ellingson is working with the committee and advises that the route is pretty consistent with the actual usage and hasn't seen a lot of violations by the regular users, and are having folks continue the loop on the river. Mark W. stated that the proposed route includes taking the snowmobile route behind RDO Foods and is the first time that have had a snowmobile route that is on private property, Kim is working with the snowmobile club to get written approval that they can have the route on private land before we publish the map. He stated that if RDO Foods said that they didn't want the snowmobile route on private property would have come out on Red Dot Place and the contractor would significantly object to that because he would have to run the route right through parts that he is responsible for. Kim stated that she has talked to Steven Renslow, Red River Snowmobile Club, and they are pursuing that.

Moved by Bakken and McNamara for approval of the snowmobile route contingent on getting that approval and finalizing with RDO and the contractors. Motion carried.

3, Towing issue.
Kreun stated that the recent Court decision on our towing situation, evidently the Court found that our resident towing company has one set of rules and our out of state towing company has another set of rules to go by, and would like to put those two on a level playing field, and to work with Mr. Swanson to determine how that should be done; that he doesn't feel that it is proper just because one company works outside the state that they have don't have the ability to follow the same laws as our businesses do. Kreun stated that he would like the police department to work with Mr. Swanson, and draft this and bring it back to committee.

Bakken stated that not only a level playing field but that our citizens aren't abused in the process.

Chief Packett stated that when that did come down, they directed staff specifically Officer Dvorak to work with the city attorney's office on the new language and as soon as they come up with some drafts, bring that back to committee, and then to committee of the whole. Bakken asked if same issues are on-going; Chief Packett stated very few that he is aware of.

ADJOURN

Moved by Bakken and McNamara to adjourn. Motion carried. Meeting adjourned at 4:45 p.m.

Alice Fontaine
City Clerk