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Minutes of the Grand Forks City Council/Service/Safety
Standby Committee - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 4:30 p.m.

The city council of the city of Grand Forks sitting as the Service/Safety Standby Committee met in Room A101 in City Hall on Thursday, November 30, 2006 at 4:42 p.m. Present at roll call were Council Members Kreun, chair; Bakken. Others present were Al Grasser, John Thompson, Earl Haugen, Chief Packett, and Todd Feland.

1. City of Grand Forks Transportation Improvement Project (TIP), list approval.
Al Grasser, city engineer, introduced John Thompson, traffic engineer, who put the document together, that the MPO for their timetable was hoping to get this by December 6, 2006 however are in arrears, that this is something they do every year and are looking at process of where they want to spend their federal dollars between 2008 and 2012; listing is in the staff report and is hard to come up with a solid list because there are so many needs out there and hard to prioritize where they should be. He pointed out several items where he sees big changes - have talked for several years about S. 48th Street being earmarked, that 48th would help extend our Industrial Park to the south and that they need to expand, have earmarked this for 3 years in a row along with Merrifield Interchange and the bridge and they are not going anywhere on an earmark. He stated he is hearing the need for 48th Street and is probably to a point where we can't afford to wait on earmarks and is time to program it, doesn't think that will preclude us from being able to pump it in as an earmark but this gives us a definite schedule for that as have some surety as to when, that is a big change and a big dollar amount with lands, etc. $9.5 million project and asked committee to be aware of that as that is on the list.

He stated that one of the big things that is not on the list is the 42nd Street underpass as they are still in the process of developing the project concept report, that will be presented to the city council this winter, the dollar amount on the underpass work is approaching the $15 to $16 million range, and making an assumption on this document that the underpass is something they will defer to either end of planning horizon or after planning horizon given other competing needs, and that will be of opinion, if council wants to insert that they can but there is a cash flow component from the DOT as to how much money we can access at any one point in time. He stated if they substituted a $15 million project, will have to take out $15 million of other types of work.

He stated one of the next big issues is Columbia Road, that Columbia Road is starting to fall apart, have done some major rehabs on it and time to start programming in a reconstruction, did 32nd Ave.S. intersection and this year finished bidding 24th Ave.S. intersection and that takes you to about 22nd Ave.S., have piece from overpass to at least 22nd Ave.S., and the work there from a dollar amount gets to be so large and broke that into a two phase or two year type of project, too much for any one year, and that when they do those two big projects run a big deficit on the cash flow balance, that it is on the list but suspects the qualities tend to be subject to change by the State when they start trying to insert these into their cash flow process. He stated that when they are picking something off at the end of their planning horizon, 2012 and 2013, trying to establish that earmark esp. for a big project, the other unknown and will swing the dollar amount numbers as to how many lanes we need to deal with on Columbia Road, that will be refined with the long range transportation plan that the MPO is working on now; that Columbia Road is basically a 5-lane road and question is if need to go to 7-lane, can't expand without acquiring lots of R/W and having significant impact.

He stated one of the things they found when working on the 42nd underpass, that in the long range transportation plan Columbia Road is figured as a 7-lane road, counting turn lanes, and that carries a lot of the traffic that would otherwise go to 42nd so decreases our justification for a project on the underpass on 42nd, but do we really have the will and desire to build that 7-lane road. He stated there is fair amount of subjectivity to this and is giving it his best crystal ball.

Bakken stated that all this work needs to be done, that priority and balance of list is not question of if but question of when and to make everyone aware that this is what we are going to do. Grasser stated there will be a lot of projects that will come up on the long range transportation plan, the 32nd Ave.S. interchange improvements was on the old list and expected to be on the new one, there is probably $100 million worth of improvements that we need to make and don't have the money for it and which ones we pick is a matter of picking priorities. Bakken stated it is important to fix some of the streets we have rather than expanding new streets, Columbia is an example of one that needs to be redone. Grasser stated they are trying to do a little bit of everything, splitting a little money into new streets, rehabbing existing because if trying to hold down future specials, and one he hopes will be big successes is 40th Ave.S. project that just went through council, created special assessment districts with no comments and if can get it in before all the people get there, they come in knowing what their costs are going to be.

There was some discussion as to how much sales tax would be needed to get rid of special assessments, Grasser stated he didn't think they can define that, but on street and highway side need about $2 million/year to match federal programs; and it was suggested that they should look at perhaps not replacing 100% but to look at some other way of doing it. It was noted that a certain percentage of our current sales tax goes towards infrastructure - a quarter or third of 1%; and Grasser stated that 1% generates $5 million /year.

John Thompson asked if the committee wanted him to go through each project or if they wanted to select certain projects for discussion. Kreun stated biggest one is new and/or fixing existing - that South 48th Street acquiring R/W is a high priority and have to look at acquiring R/W and down the list, have to rehab lift stations. Grasser stated that was one of the few they can access federal funding.

Thompson stated Highway Safety Improvement Program (HSIP) funds is a new category and strong push to reduce safety projects and are 90-10% funded. Grasser stated that 48th Street R/W which shows up in 2008 will be an ordeal because property owners to the west not accept potential costs, annexations, etc. and not be surprised if have to go through condemnation process to acquire that and that is why that project is a couple years ahead of the actual construction because that process takes some time.

Thompson stated the second page is the regional projects and put on list, one that is not on there is the DeMers underpass that has been on the list in the past, on page 3 shows list of projects that have at various priority levels. Grasser stated page 3 is grab bag of projects that have popped up - list of unfunded needs and if want to propose one of those in, would have to replace it with something else, this list is not going to be added to without taking away from. Kreun stated that in this order if we add something from the back page will have to replace, and that may happen depending on the needs of the community.

Earl Haugen, MPO, stated they don't like to earmark projects that are showing up in a TIP, and if have time can ask between now and December 11 when the COW looks at this and have a better answer to that, but general rule is that if it shows up in a programmed project they tend to think that you're swapping funds. Bakken asked if staff would look at that part, get back to committee before COW, maybe squeeze in and look at it. Grasser stated they have a number of projects that could be available for earmarking - Merrifield interchange, 42nd underpass, Merrifield bridge and 48th Street and when looked up those four, which ones can we live without, and has a tendency of putting on the underpass, the interchange, that 48th is rising in priority. Kreun stated of the four: Merrifield interchange, Merrifield bridge and prioritize it.

Bakken asked staff including Earl Haugen to sit down and review and if need to swap. Kreun asked what would happen if we left R/W acquisition in and took street out, and if that would change earmark. Haugen stated in 2008 you are not going to be able to access your urban funds at $1.2 million because in State perspective they have programmed and committed projects for 2010 and uses all of the urban money. Grasser stated he expects to have some revisions on this, as this is a very aggressive request, that sometimes it pays to have a project waiting in the wings too. Kreun stated we haven't been overly blessed with State funds as far as urban funds go. Grasser stated that if take 48th off this list, we're going to have probably 2010 and carrying a balance in our urban account of $10 or $12 million and that we don't want to have that much money hanging out there, and if took it off would suggest we replace it with something else or some list of other projects, that there is an urban balance you want to have but run it close to zero if can.

Haugen stated that they need conversations with the State and one of the things they have to do before forwarding something to the State is that there is fiscal capability or fiscal constraint that $1.2 million in 2008 doesn't seem to have the ability to forward that on to the State because your balance shows you have it but from the State they have already programmed all the money out so part of our conversation between now and December 11 is to find out the earmark question for this and also how they manage $1.2 million in 2008 on the urban side, there is some room and changes dynamics of things, but as it stands now, would have a difficult time sending it off to the State as a fiscal responsible request.

Grasser stated that the other item would be to start programming the local dollars for the R/W acquisition, there are some advantages to that, a few less hoops to go through on the paperwork, that he has advocated that even on the earmarks because if we get an earmark they usually want that money spent fairly quickly, if they give us an earmark for 2008 and say we need to spend it, doesn't know that we would be able to get it built because of property acquisition phase, which would take at least a year, and if we can't use federal dollars, may want to start the process with local dollars. Kreun suggested they put their heads together and see if want to change it before it comes to the council, 48th is one of our top priorities and doesn't know if the up and over on 17th makes more sense if it comes back on the wish list and move up farther to move traffic, but that will dictate itself if you get 48th in there.

Bakken stated several years ago they were talking about 48th and were having a problem getting a bridge across the drainage ditch because of acquisition cost, and if the National Guard putting pressure on us as they were supposed to have more than one way in and out of their reserve, and asked staff to check on that also, and if that is the case might help us in Bismarck if Guard needs another way out. Grasser stated that one advantage they have when talked about 48th before is with the flood protection project diverting all that water, can handle the water now on 17th because of box culverts, etc. in reasonable manner where before it was too much to deal with. Kreun stated that Sprycznatic is the Adjutant General for the National Guard and is going to be at the Chamber on December 7, made note of that and would speak to him at that time.

Grasser stated that one thing he wanted to point out in this process is on the mathematics side urban monies is an 80-20% split and if do math on our local funding side it is more than 20% of the total project cost because there are always costs that maybe aren't clarified in the program and have learned over time to bump our local costs, take the 20% but there are allocations recognizing there are going to be some other local costs.

Thompson stated at this point this is a fairly good list and that they will talk about 48th plans, send to the Committee of the Whole on December 11 and to council on the 18th.

Kreun asked if the Washington Street underpass go away. Grasser stated they need to have strong justification of need to spend that kind of money, and asked Haugen how successful on HSIP program and if competing with State-wide projects or if should be actively programming that as an intersection. Haugen stated first thing have to do is work with the State to develop a plan on how to use those funds and what year would be to plug that in at; and that 2008 would be the first year they are available, committee agreed with that modification. Kreun stated there are so many needs and funding will dictate what we do.

Thompson stated that on page 3, wish list, and if want to rank large dollar amount projects, and anything over $2 million rank them for priority and anything under $2 million so could pick from those two and if see benefit to that or go through some kind of evaluation of what they think should be used. Grasser stated the third page is what they don't have the money for and not sure to even rank them at this time. Bakken stated the only reasons to rank them is if get to council and some reason somebody wants to change, but rank to our need and what can get done.

Grasser stated re. Highway Funding on 48th Street and for committee to be aware if break ground into that area, there are other infrastructure needs that the council would have to deal with, lift stations, sanitary sewer and storm sewer are significant items, that lift station next to Industrial Park doesn't have the depth to run the gravity. Plan is that each section of land has a lift station, otherwise digging so deep in the ground can't get past OSHA to get these built, or have to do some directional borrowing type.

It was moved by Bakken and seconded by Kreun approve recommended list subject to any changes coming up, esp. on 48th. Motion carried.

2. Other business:
Todd Feland, director of public works, stated he assumed from discussion last Monday that council would vote next Monday on transportation enhancement to allow them to proceed, were going to schedule a working session and not planning to provide any additional information but wait until authorized to go for the grant, and if receive the grant, then come back.

ADJOURN

The meeting was adjourned at 5:25 p.m.

Alice Fontaine
City Clerk